Episode 266: Self-Compassion for Anxiety with Dr. Russell Kennedy
Join Kelli and Dr. Russell Kennedy as they chat about what self-compassion is, common barriers/challenges, work-arounds, and more! Spoiler alert: This episode aims to bring the abstract idea of self-compassion down to earth, so that it's accessible to anyone!
To tune into the episode, listen on iTunes or Spotify.
Transcript
00:00.00
kelliwalkercoaching
Hey guys welcome to not another anxiety show I'm your host Kelly Walker and joining me today as guest Dr Russell Kennedy hey Russ good. Thanks so much for taking time to hop on the show again exactly well reunion.
00:06.37
Dr Russ Kennedy
Hey, Kelly how you doing. Um, yeah I guess every 4 years we'll get together but sure.
00:19.39
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah I know you've been here before but do you mind if I share a little more about you before we get started perfect. So Dr Russell Kennedy aka the anxiety md is a bestselling author and anxiety specialist with degrees and advanced training in MedicineNeuroscience and developmental psychology. But it's not all science.
00:22.30
Dr Russ Kennedy
Now go right ahead.
00:38.92
kelliwalkercoaching
And he is also a certified yoga and meditation teacher and was a professional stand-up comedian for over a decade and that's no joke in his award-winning book anxiety rx he combines the science of the brain with a more artistic body-based approach. He learned through living at a temple in India taking psychedelics and being a natural and gifted intuitive. Dr. Kennedy gives a unique understanding of what anxiety truly is and further exactly how it can be successfully treated. You can find Dr Kennedy at the anxiety mddotcom and before we started recording. You mentioned you just started um or you're in the midst of working on a course.
01:14.45
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah I'm working on a program a mind body program because I think we get so much mind stuff for anxiety and it doesn't really help. In fact, you know if the problem of of anxiety is is excessive thinking. Why are we giving people more thinking. So.
01:22.69
kelliwalkercoaching
And.
01:30.64
Dr Russ Kennedy
It's really about ah incorporating the body self-compassion connecting to your younger wounded self. Um and I think just showing people that anxiety has much more to do with old unresolved stuff. That's stuck in your body. That's only reflected by your mind. So we're trying to treat the mind when the mind isn't actually the real underlying cause of the Problem. So the problem the the program specifically addresses connecting through your body as well as giving you cognitive strategies in your mind.
01:58.41
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, and you know when you describe you know if thinking feels like the problem when we try to solve it with more thinking. It's like trying to put out a fire with you know more fire or more more fire and I don't know about your experience. But um, you know for me when.
02:06.72
Dr Russ Kennedy
More fire. Yeah, exactly.
02:17.38
kelliwalkercoaching
When it came to working with traditional cognitive therapies particularly cbt when I was in like a dysregulated flooded Panicked State Um it it kind of further disconnected me from my body and my experience and.
02:32.25
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah.
02:35.70
kelliwalkercoaching
And I think for me when it came down to it. A lot of um, a lot of what I needed was reconnecting to my body and the present moment and my experience because so many of us that struggle with anxiety or trauma or as you call it right? alarm. Um, we get really good at disconnecting we get as this means to survival right.
02:51.99
Dr Russ Kennedy
We had to like when we are younger if you if you were experiencing abuse loss abandonment rejection anything like that. You know as a child you're powerless pretty much you know so the only thing you have the only option you have is to go into your head and worry. So.
02:54.93
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, we had to.
03:02.27
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, yeah.
03:09.25
Dr Russ Kennedy
It becomes the it becomes the pathway of choice in a way because you have no control. You have no power so we learn to worry from a very young age exactly and it does make a bit of a difference. It does help a little bit and ah in our dopamine based brains. Um, anything is better than nothing but we learn how to worry.
03:14.32
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, lesser Evil Yeah, it's like yeah.
03:25.57
kelliwalkercoaching
Now.
03:29.15
Dr Russ Kennedy
As a way of coping and basically it comes at a huge cost because then we believe what we worry about and then the alarm in their body just gets worse. Yep.
03:37.50
kelliwalkercoaching
Huge cost huge cost and you know you you mentioned um self-compassion a minute ago and I I would love your take on you know and I mean I know what the definition of self-compassion is but how would you describe it. You know like when you think of self compassion and you're. Describing it to others or talking about it with others. How would you? How would you describe it.
04:00.37
Dr Russ Kennedy
I'd say just making a loving connection with the wounded child in you. That's really, that's really what it is. You know like I think what happens is as children. You know we experience something that's too much for our little minds to bear.
04:05.39
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah.
04:13.66
Dr Russ Kennedy
We stuff it down into the unconscious mind because it's too much for the conscious and then because the body is a representation of the unconscious mind it gets offloaded into the body. So if we find and that child still lives there like if you look at the way the amygdala processes information. The amygdala has no sense of time but records everything that's ever hurt you.
04:28.73
kelliwalkercoaching
Time now.
04:33.50
Dr Russ Kennedy
So as soon as you go back into that same familiar feeling of alarm. You get transported back to being eight years old so can you find your little. Yeah, exactly.
04:37.65
kelliwalkercoaching
And that's how it feels and that's how it feels if I feel if I'm feeling panicked I feel like a motherless child in the world. You know that's yeah yeah, and a lot of this.
04:46.66
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yep yep, which is probably what you were what you got That's probably exactly how you felt when you were a child. Yes.
04:53.64
kelliwalkercoaching
Implicit learning right? like this is not something that explicitly happens when we're kids our our brains and bodies are just doing the best they can with the resources they have at the time. Yeah.
05:02.81
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah, we become a reactive self. You know if you're your parents an alcoholic or abusive you have to react to that and then you develop all sorts of management strategies and coping skills to react to that but it changes your personality and the farther we move away from our true authentic selves as as sort of zen and.
05:16.63
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah.
05:22.39
Dr Russ Kennedy
Whatever that sounds the more alarm. Do we get and the more alarm that we store in our body The more anxious that we're likely to be especially if we're born sensitive because everybody I see as as ah as a you know anxiety doctor was born sensitive. That's part of their nature. Yeah.
05:32.50
kelliwalkercoaching
Ah.
05:37.45
kelliwalkercoaching
Ah, you preach into the choir right here. Yeah, which I preach oh my gosh. Yeah, it's and and again I think so many of us, especially depending.
05:41.10
Dr Russ Kennedy
Thank you Halleoo you? Thank you Lord you're preaching in the choir I hear you baby I hear you.
05:54.67
kelliwalkercoaching
What generation we come from I was raised by um, my biological grandparents which were you know, very much baby boomers and for me I implicitly learned and I'm wondering if you did too or if others identify with this I implicitly learned that quote unquote you know, negative or unpleasant or painful. Emotions are bad. You know they're they're bad, Don't bother me with them. You know like that needs emotional needs were bad that was my implicit learning.
06:19.33
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah, well I think we all and I think we learned that today too I think the kids learn that today is that and because and they have their phones now. So when they feel anything negative. They just go on their phones and.
06:25.36
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, no, oh yeah.
06:33.86
Dr Russ Kennedy
You know it works it but it comes at a cost because you never actually learn how to deal with those negative emotions if you constantly go to your phone every time you feel something painful.
06:43.33
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, so what? I mean right? if that's the case so many of us I don't know if you've seen that show shrinking with Harrison Ford and um Jason Siegel it's It's really great. It's by the same creators of of Ted Lasso but Harrison Ford plays a therapist and he says something really great that none of us he's talking to someone that lost her mom ah a teen that lost her mom and um, she's like gosh I feel so alone so misunderstood and he's like none of us get out unscathed like all.
07:09.61
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah.
07:12.40
kelliwalkercoaching
All of us have whatever we call it big t little t I love that I think the Greek word for trauma is just its wounds right? Like we all we all have we all have our wounds so I'm wondering when it comes to self-compassion for for all of us with you know our various size and and quantity of wounds. What are some of the benefits.
07:16.38
Dr Russ Kennedy
Um, yeah.
07:32.70
kelliwalkercoaching
Of self-compassion when it comes to healing right? like I know Dr Kristin Neff's self-compassion research says benefits include increased resilience and um motivation to make changes and reach our goals not from a place of inadequacy right? or the ego but because it's a value to us I I know self-compassion can be.
07:38.21
Dr Russ Kennedy
Depths.
07:51.66
kelliwalkercoaching
Like really radically improve our mental and physical. Well-being. But what benefits have you personally experienced or maybe come across in some of like your understanding of alarm in the body.
08:02.80
Dr Russ Kennedy
Well I think alarm is fundamentally a disconnection of your mind from your body and your adult self from your child self so your child self holds the pain. So the adult doesn't want to go back there because that's where their pain is and then the child who needs the adult in you to.
08:09.58
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah.
08:21.13
Dr Russ Kennedy
Compassionate towards them and love them and see them hear them and protect them. The child starts getting this like okay well if you're not going to see me hear me and protect me like talking about adult you not connecting with with child you they're just going to get more and more alarmed so the more you can appear to be connected to.
08:37.26
kelliwalkercoaching
Oh.
08:39.22
Dr Russ Kennedy
Child in you and compassion is one of the best ways of doing that and I actually get people that like can you see the eyes of your child. You know when you're outside and your parents are screaming each other in the house. Can you actually look back in your mind's eye see that child see what they're wearing connect with them.
08:45.49
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah.
08:56.44
Dr Russ Kennedy
You know, put your arm around Them. Can you can you say you know I wish this wasn't happening but I'm here now because like I said the amygdala has no sense of time and basically you will go back to that same place you were when you were a child and compassion is one of those ways that you can access and show that child that they're actually safe. Because they don't feel safe.
09:17.78
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah, it really sounds like it's the essence of healing in a big way. Yeah.
09:21.25
Dr Russ Kennedy
I think it is I think self-connection. Yeah because you know anxiety at its core is a mind body disconnect your mind gets going so quickly and hyper vigilant because it goes the way I imagine it is it goes like five feet in front of your body. Your mind is always looking for something that's going to be dangerous and your body's way back here like hey you know I need attention to and the mind's like no no, no, we got ah we got to look for the lion that may be coming out of the out of the the parking lot. You know we always have to be looking for something and then.
09:37.89
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, ah.
09:44.48
kelliwalkercoaching
Ah, yeah.
09:52.23
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah, yeah.
09:53.71
Dr Russ Kennedy
So when you live like that when you live that disconnected. Of course you're just going to feel alarmed. Of course you're going to feel at the whim of anything that's going to happen to you so the more you can bring your mind and your body back together and we do that by I think bringing our adult self into the world of our child self and vice versa. When we connect with the child in us that's hurting and show them. They're seen heard loved and protected as ethereal and spiritual and woo woo is at sounds after 35 years of like yeah emdr cbt h I j k illenop all these different therapies I did nothing really made a big difference until I started. Compassionately connected to that younger version of myself through my body all the cognitive stuff all the learning you know I'm a doctor I mean I learned a lot of cognitive stuff but none of it really none of it stuck none of it provided me with anything that really helped me in the long term. What's really helped me in the long term.
10:38.21
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah.
10:48.80
Dr Russ Kennedy
Is finding that child in my body finding the sensation of that child in my body and showing them that they're seen heard loved and protected. That's what's made the big difference for me in my anxiety.
10:56.73
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, and you know it sounds like self-compassion really like kind of bringing that compassion really inwards towards the self it sounds like it really has the opportunity to encourage that reconnection right? You speak of it being a disconnect which I.
11:12.50
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah, yeah.
11:14.70
kelliwalkercoaching
I can definitely relate to you know I for me when I had 1 of my first terrible panic attacks I just thought it must be a heart attack I was so disconnected from my.
11:23.49
Dr Russ Kennedy
Um, yeah, of course.
11:24.96
kelliwalkercoaching
My body imagine what had to build and in my poor body for it to you know, come out is a raging panic attack where I couldn't breathe couldn't see felt like I was going to pass out and um, you know Finally, it's like my body's like well I'm just going to scream as loud as I can until you reconnect and listen right? Yeah, the child.
11:38.29
Dr Russ Kennedy
Well, that's the child in you Kelly that's the child. That's the alarm child yelling. It's not you. It's it's basically well it's a form of you but it's the alarm child in you that's saying look find me find me I need I need some help here.
11:43.51
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, yeah, right look at me. Yeah.
11:54.30
Dr Russ Kennedy
And and what we typically do as adults is we push that pain away. We drink we zombie scroll Instagram we find some way of not dealing with that child and then the child just gets louder and the alarm gets worse and and we're not healing the fundamental root cause of the problem because I do think when we're younger.
12:01.38
kelliwalkercoaching
Yep.
12:08.55
kelliwalkercoaching
Right.
12:12.40
Dr Russ Kennedy
When things are when when chit's going down in the hood when our family isn't doing well children blame Well they blame themselves too parents looking after them exactly. Yeah.
12:16.80
kelliwalkercoaching
It's tumultuous and um, so well because who else they can't blame their parents because parents are means a survival right? like that's it's it's like it must be me and you know developing this hypervigilance and this hyper reactivity. So that I mean because what do we have control over.
12:29.61
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah.
12:33.85
kelliwalkercoaching
Ourselves That's about it as kids we have some control over Well I'll be really quiet because you know Dad's drinking or ah, you know I won't bother mom right now she has that scow on her face like I will just go upstairs and suffer internally right? I'll internalize it and I'm a big I'm a big internalizer. You know we're ah we're all different me.
12:38.70
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah depth. Now Now all of us with anxiety are internal and all of us with anxiety are sensitive to like everybody I've ever treated for anxiety was born, a sensitive person and that's just part of it and and we and we may.
12:53.37
kelliwalkercoaching
And true. Yeah yeah. Um, yeah, it's part of it.
13:04.77
Dr Russ Kennedy
You know we may have had reasonable parents but we just needed more love. We just needed more attention and if the child doesn't get their needs met then that alarm starts and that alarm and then we become this sort of reactive self to try and get our needs. Met.
13:10.41
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah, exactly.
13:19.84
Dr Russ Kennedy
And if we don't get our needs met that way the alarm just gets greater and greater and greater and we want and it winds up showing up as anxiety when actually it's really an old state of alarm that's stored in your body so that self-compassion piece of finding that child and showing them that they are are actually seen heard loved and protected. That is the most healing thing that we can do as opposed to just you know, rationally figuring out that we should just you know go to the gym more or whatever. Yeah.
13:47.31
kelliwalkercoaching
Now I'm I'm laughing because I tried to I really I mean it was close to 5 years or so 10 years trying it trying all sort of the standard approaches I am when I do something I go gung-ho I get committed i'm. Good at like meeting my goals it it wasn't for lack of trying and I think that was what was so frustrating because it was the first time I was really trying when it came to um, came to healing my anxiety and and coming at it from sort of the cbt and and some you know the.
14:10.62
Dr Russ Kennedy
Deaf.
14:22.20
Dr Russ Kennedy
Traditional roots. Yeah yeah.
14:24.88
kelliwalkercoaching
Traditional roots like coming at it from that place. It was really sort of the first time in my life that I was putting an effort and trying and not seeing an outcome and it was really bewildering and scary and it took me a long time to really understand how anxiety. Physiologically or alarm physiologically works in the body I mean this really is a bodily experience. Why? Why would the answer be. You know, trying to think my way out when you know this is very much a biochemical reaction? Yeah yeah, yeah, is it.
14:49.10
Dr Russ Kennedy
Anxiety is a problem of excess thinking? Yes, when anxiety is a problem excess thinking trying to think your way out is just going to cause more anxiety which is absolutely true. Yep yep, getting darker I don't know why it's getting darker because I'm digging.
15:00.17
kelliwalkercoaching
Like just being in a hole and keep digging. You know my Little'll just keep digging getting deeper and deeper and it's yeah.
15:08.30
Dr Russ Kennedy
Like everything should be betting better I'm keep digging and that's the thing It's like that's why that's why one of my favorite of my own quotes being the little arrogant person I can be sometimes is that you can't heal a feeling problem with a thinking solution. You just can't do it. It just doesn't work.
15:09.38
kelliwalkercoaching
I Keep digging.
15:19.96
kelliwalkercoaching
I Think in solution.
15:23.79
Dr Russ Kennedy
But that's what most traditional therapies will try and tell you is that you can cbt your way out of anxiety and it does work in the short term and that's what's why it's so seductive but in the long term it tends to fade away. Yeah and some you're right? You're right in some people you know? yeah.
15:32.36
kelliwalkercoaching
Unless you're me it absolutely didn't work for me at all. It can now now that I'm regulated now that I mean they're they're reframing or things like that can be helpful when I'm in a regulated like you know.
15:41.99
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah.
15:46.78
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah, exactly. But the reason the the Neuro scientific reason for that is because when we go into survival physiology when we start secreting Epinephrine and cortisol. We shut off the parts of our brain prefrontal premotor.
15:48.68
kelliwalkercoaching
No, but no, no bigger than a 5 out of 10 on the alarm scale like then it's accessible.
16:05.86
Dr Russ Kennedy
Those those rational parts of our brain that would say hey you know this worry that you're having a heart attack. This is completely irrational. You know you're a 29 year old woman. There's no way you're having a heart attack now that rational brain gets shut off by survival physiology. So not only do we make more worries when we're in survival mode.
16:20.93
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah.
16:24.55
Dr Russ Kennedy
But we lose the part of our brain that would say hey these worries they're nothing to worry about so we get double whammied.
16:29.16
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, and you know to sort of add on to that as someone that would have you know really struggled with health anxiety and panic attacks. Even if I was having a panic attack and I would try to rationalize my way out like I would lean into thoughts like well I'm a 24 year old healthy woman. Not like.
16:45.63
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yes.
16:49.12
kelliwalkercoaching
Those thoughts would come up but there was such a discrepancy between what I was feeling in my body that it held no sway. It did not make me feel safe. It did not make me feel supported. It did not comfort me in any way because there was much too big of a discrepancy between.
16:53.37
Dr Russ Kennedy
Death.
17:06.20
kelliwalkercoaching
That thought and what was like showing up stored in my body. Yeah.
17:08.16
Dr Russ Kennedy
Absolutely you know and that makes sense if you don't have the part of your brain the rational part of your brain online that will help you any any rational thought that you might have won't find any purchase there.
17:21.63
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, right.
17:23.47
Dr Russ Kennedy
It won't have it won't have any sway at all because the part of your brain the rational part of your brain that would kind of fulfill that need is offline and your survival brain is hyped up so survival brains are not smart. They they are not intelligent. They're completely reactive.
17:33.22
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah.
17:40.42
kelliwalkercoaching
They're reactive they're they need to be like if a bus is coming at us. We don't want to stop and cognitively think about it for seconds right? Like we want our body to react get us out of the way before we've even registered Really what's happening right? like there's.
17:43.28
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah, yes, of course. Yeah.
17:55.35
kelliwalkercoaching
There's really no room for cognitive thinking in this reactive survival space. Yeah yeah, absolutely well that is exactly how it feels right? like that's.
17:58.19
Dr Russ Kennedy
What doesn't work because your brain doesn't have the ability to actually take it in.
18:07.25
Dr Russ Kennedy
Then.
18:10.90
kelliwalkercoaching
And I think a lot of people can identify with that I think any of us that struggle with anxiety can so I'm wondering for you when it came to when you were starting to practice self-compassion and sort of apply this to your experience. What were some of your barriers like what made it feel.
18:14.10
Dr Russ Kennedy
Completely. No.
18:23.71
Dr Russ Kennedy
Again.
18:29.40
kelliwalkercoaching
You know I know for me, it felt abstract and inaccessible at first what what was difficult at first.
18:36.12
Dr Russ Kennedy
Well I think that's I think the same you know it did feel like kind of forced and unnatural and whatever and what I found really helpful was finding a picture of myself when I was younger and using that picture as ah as a focus of my compassion because.
18:41.00
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah, yeah, good. Yeah.
18:52.92
Dr Russ Kennedy
Just trying to do it academically didn't really seem to to help it didn't seem to really it. You know it felt really kind of woo and spiritual and like whatever this is what to help me? whatever um, but when I found a picture of myself and I've got pictures of myself at different ages. You know, even on my phone I've got a picture of me when I was 3 and.
18:57.88
kelliwalkercoaching
Ah, yeah.
19:02.37
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah.
19:12.67
Dr Russ Kennedy
You know one of my podcasts recently I did um a whole like 50 minutes which is very long for my podcast typically it's only about 20 on Peter Gabriel's song in your eyes which I listen to in the morning while I look at one of but the younger pictures of myself because I believe in that the lyrics of that song.
19:27.17
kelliwalkercoaching
Ha.
19:31.53
Dr Russ Kennedy
He's actually talking about connecting with himself connecting with the younger version of himself and it's very powerful and and a lot of people will send me messages sound like Trump there a lot of people are saying you know. But yeah, it's ah ah, a lot of people send me messages saying you know that that song really brought me to tears because it.
19:33.80
kelliwalkercoaching
Itself. Yeah.
19:50.14
Dr Russ Kennedy
It really does help me find that younger version of me because it's an emotional connection and it's very hard to make an emotional connection with a cognitive like I should be more compassionate to myself.
19:53.60
kelliwalkercoaching
Right.
19:59.44
kelliwalkercoaching
Right? It's hard. Yeah, we we don't connect to our loved ones you know our kids our spouses our friends we you know it's not ah, it's not really a cognitive experience right? It's a felt experience. We're designed to sort of co-regulate and connect socially and.
20:09.37
Dr Russ Kennedy
Um, no.
20:17.48
kelliwalkercoaching
And that's something that we feel like we feel that that's embodied we feel it in our body. Our bones. It's what makes us seek it out. It's not because it's you know, um a cognitive like sterile experience. It's yeah yeah.
20:26.58
Dr Russ Kennedy
No, although Society makes us think that everything is cognitive like we're not supposed to have bad emotions. We're so as to think them away. We're supposed to think better. We're supposed to manifest you know, think think properly like imagine you have this thing and you'll yeah you will get it and the secret and all that stuff and.
20:41.55
kelliwalkercoaching
But a lot of attraction and ah yeah, the Ceo yeah yep, yeah.
20:45.88
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah, yeah, so you know I mean the mind is very powerful for sure, but it has its limitations and I don't think that we're sort of shown the limitations of the mind and when we see the limitations of the mind where do we go? Well, we go into the body which is really the true source of healing. Is through your body. It's not through your mind.
21:06.50
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, it's it's funny just as you were saying that I was kind of thinking of something that works for me when when I'm feeling um, overwhelmed or a bit flooded or starting to feel dysregulated enough. My my reminder to myself is um.
21:19.57
Dr Russ Kennedy
Right? yeah.
21:20.41
kelliwalkercoaching
Body first body first be like because the thinking mind is so addictive right? We get that dopamine rush when we worry or think it through and and sometimes my instinct is to want to go there my you know even after all these years. it's it's enticing it's like a siren song and um. For me, it's like I think of you know when you're on the airplane they're like put your mask on yourself first I'm like okay just body first if I want to come if I want to attack this cognitively that option is there but let's just take care of the body first for a few minutes. Yeah right.
21:44.91
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yep.
21:49.10
Dr Russ Kennedy
Well, if your body isn't regulated. You don't have the like I Just said you don't have the part of your brain that's going to make any difference anyway. So so any any knowledge you might acquire at that is not going to stick because the part of your brain that would actually incorporate that knowledge is offline.
21:58.14
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:06.73
Dr Russ Kennedy
So that's why like my little Abc in my book. You know it's like awareness be aware of what the early feeling of anxiety feels like in your body so that you know it's coming and then move into your body and your breath and then see his compassion so you know luckily we're talking about self-comppaant today. And that's how it works is that. But first you have to be aware. How does this feel like how does it feel in my body first and and have that be your warning sign rather than have your worries be your warning sign because as soon as you get to the worry part your your mind is kind of offline. Yeah, your mind is offline so it's just and it takes practice.
22:30.50
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah.
22:38.91
kelliwalkercoaching
Hooked and kind of already. Yeah.
22:43.36
Dr Russ Kennedy
You know it really does it takes practice to know Oh this is my chronic worry. This is what I worry about all the time. Maybe I should go into my body. Oh my body's starting to feel alarmed. Maybe I should sort of breathe into that. Maybe I should find my younger self. You know that's that's how you start changing the pattern Otherwise the automatic pattern is just to try and think your way out of a feeling problem which never works.
22:52.76
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah.
23:02.74
kelliwalkercoaching
And no, it's like a fish trying to climb a tree and be like why can't know what's wrong with me. Why can't It's like it just doesn't it just doesn't work and I think so many of us know that right? we know that experientially cognitively and and yeah and and you know eventually experience.
23:03.30
Dr Russ Kennedy
Causes more problems. Yeah, exactly.
23:13.62
Dr Russ Kennedy
Cognitively cognitively? Yes, but not feeling wise.
23:20.20
kelliwalkercoaching
Experientially I think a lot of us get to the point where we're like yeah thinking our way out's not working and then that's when we become open or interested or curious right in learning different ways right? you hit your head against the wall enough and it's like okay that hurts and it's not working and yeah, so.
23:26.27
Dr Russ Kennedy
Right? right.
23:37.80
Dr Russ Kennedy
Um, yes.
23:39.40
kelliwalkercoaching
When it comes to sort of practical applications I know you shared what um sort of reconnecting with your inner child looks like showing yourself compassion are there any practices other practices that have helped you? yeah.
23:52.56
Dr Russ Kennedy
Well I think finding the alarm in your body for me, you know for me in my book I write about the alarm being in my solar plexus area. Some people it's in their heart area. Some people it's in their throat. Ah some people it's in their belly. You know it is one of those things that that um, you find the alarm in your system.
23:57.60
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, oh my throat. Yeah.
24:10.52
Dr Russ Kennedy
And then when you find the alarm in your system you put your hand over it. You know you you make a physical touch connection with that. So you start engaging the the somatosensory cortex you start engaging different parts of your brain you start engaging sensation which brings you into the present moment because all worries are about the future.
24:10.84
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah, yeah.
24:27.19
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah.
24:29.70
Dr Russ Kennedy
So if you can stay in the present moment and stay with that. Ah discomfort you learn how to acclimatize to it and you learn how to to metabolize it and then it doesn't automatically fire you right up your worries every single time now some Traumas are are difficult to deal with on your own.
24:36.99
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah.
24:45.92
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, right.
24:46.84
Dr Russ Kennedy
You know, physical emotional sexual abuse. That's that's almost impossible to deal with on your own or it is impossible to deal with so then you need some help then you need like a somatic therapist or someone who can really help you through it. There's only so much self-healing. You can do. But you know self-compassion is always available to you is just learning the the roots that.
24:50.61
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah.
25:06.10
Dr Russ Kennedy
Are the most effective which I found is just finding a picture of yourself and seeing that younger child and I do this little thing called commiserating. So I have a picture of myself at 12 and I say to him it's like it must have been really hard for you when your dad would go manic you know and just see what he says sometimes he doesn't say anything sometimes he really.
25:08.24
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, yeah.
25:18.61
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah.
25:23.99
Dr Russ Kennedy
You know we really bond on that because that was a shared experience of my the adult me and the child me and I just say that must have been really hard for you and try and give him now what he didn't get back then? yeah.
25:34.91
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, the ah the seeing right? like it's it's Funny. It's sort of like a twist of what you're talking about. But for me a lot of times when it comes to showing myself self-compassion. Um my go to used to be Like. What's wrong with me. What am I doing wrong like completely overlooking myself right? and now if I catch myself going there I'm like oh hey, what do I need right now and for me as as someone. Um, you know as someone that was again implicitly taught that having any emotional needs was bad and wrong.
25:52.54
Dr Russ Kennedy
Um, yeah I.
26:07.15
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yes, yeah.
26:10.40
kelliwalkercoaching
It's it's one of the most caring and loving things I can do for myself is to slow down and not overlook my experience right? which is quite dehumanizing you know to actually listen and bring like an essence of understanding to what I'm feeling and hey what might what might I need and for me, it's often that touch right? like I'll sometimes I'll put my hand on my chest like you mentioned or I will just instinctively until I really even understood somatics I'll instinctively tap like right above my thymus gland right on my chest like just find myself. You know, kind of Pat and and tap in right there and um.
26:33.48
Dr Russ Kennedy
Um, rest.
26:38.50
Dr Russ Kennedy
Um, right? sure.
26:44.97
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah, because it connects you it connects you with yourself and if you look at the the structure of the brain. You know so much of our somatosensory cortex So much of the part of our brain that handles our feeling and our actions our motor actions excuse me are devoted to our hands and our face.
26:46.75
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, so that yeah.
27:00.45
kelliwalkercoaching
Interesting. Just learned a new fun fact.
27:02.61
Dr Russ Kennedy
So if you if you look at the way. The brain is designed. Yeah, the the most real estate in our brains for sensation is the hands in the face. So that's what yeah, so that's why tapping like so when you tap you're using your hands and your face if you tap over your face which is what classically they teach you so and you you know that that.
27:08.76
kelliwalkercoaching
I Mean that makes sense. Yeah.
27:16.93
kelliwalkercoaching
Any of oh yeah, native teeth.
27:22.19
Dr Russ Kennedy
Overloads your brain to a point that you can't ignore you know tapping on your face using your hands and your face because that's that's where the where your brain is designed to have the most sensation so it brings you into the present moment and worries about the future. So you're always you know when you can bring yourself into the present moment all sorts of things become available to you at that point.
27:25.35
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah, yeah.
27:41.80
Dr Russ Kennedy
Aren't available to you if you're stuck in your past trauma or you're stuck in your future worries.
27:45.20
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah,, that's I mean that's a beautiful way to explain it right? it really I think one of the biggest gifts of self-compassion for me has been that sometimes the present moment can start. Can feel a little bit like you know when you have a really bad nightmare and you wake up and you're like oh my God Thank God That was a nightmare and I'm and I'm here now and this is where I am um I think that act of self-compassion and bringing in sort of the somatic or or body care and.
28:02.99
Dr Russ Kennedy
Right? yeah.
28:15.90
kelliwalkercoaching
Different things like grounding or or resourcing these things that really embodied a felt sense of like warmth and compassion and caring and seeing and understanding the things that cultivate that it it starts to make the present moment like kind of like when you're caught in your thoughts and you wake up from what I call a little bit of like a thought mare. You know.
28:32.46
Dr Russ Kennedy
Now.
28:34.47
kelliwalkercoaching
Like oh the present moments like there's a sacredness. There's a safety. There's ah, a like a comfort or like a relief in it in a way that there wasn't for me before like oh right I can always come back to breathing into this sort of scared anxious space or I can tap this space or all right. I'm here why I forgot for a second and it really can be a relief.
28:56.18
Dr Russ Kennedy
It can be but for some people it's even harder because you know being for me like I said there'd be a period of calm with my dad where he'd be okay for six twelve eighteen months and then all of a sudden. He'd go off the rails. So yep, it's it. Yep exactly.
29:08.20
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, set foreboding joy or the right that like waiting for the other shoe to to totally totally.
29:14.91
Dr Russ Kennedy
Exactly So so safety and that's the thing So safety can be. You know you can mistrust safety because of what safety meant for you as a child and that can be like the biggest hurdle in healing your anxiety is that when you start learning that you can connect with yourself through self-compassion and you start feeling safe.
29:22.34
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah.
29:34.37
Dr Russ Kennedy
That can trigger that old feeling like it's not safe to feel safe. So but you get caught in this vicious cycle. Yeah you get you get caught in a cycle. Yeah, and so you have to be really aware that you know it is safe to feel safe and and sometimes we can only take it for for little bits at a time and that's why you know, somatic experiencing and those.
29:36.44
kelliwalkercoaching
Can like rebel against it. We can like kind of unknowingly. Yeah.
29:48.89
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, and then.
29:52.34
Dr Russ Kennedy
They teach you how to go into the feeling and then come out of it and then go into it and come out of it. Yeah exactly? Yeah, so it is one of those you go into it and you come out of it and you go into it and you come out of it So and that's how you can change the nervous system and give it more capacity and resilience over time because if you try and do it all on one shot.
29:55.11
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, like pendulation. Yeah.
30:08.62
kelliwalkercoaching
it's too much. Yeah, it's too much yeah well exactly and I think for me when I so that was again 1 of my biggest barriers when I started practicing self-compassion like there was not purposeful you know, but there was a lot of resistance.
30:08.83
Dr Russ Kennedy
Ego Jumps in there. Yeah, the ego jumps in there and says look. It's not safe to feel safe. So we're just going to shut this whole thing down.
30:26.65
kelliwalkercoaching
Was a lot of resistance like do I even deserve kindness like can I really show this to myself right? like and like you say it is a practice and it it really took me years to learn how to connect to myself and and it got easier when I had kids I think because of what you were speaking to earlier my my twins look.
30:27.38
Dr Russ Kennedy
Um, oh yeah, sure.
30:45.80
Dr Russ Kennedy
Okay, there you go? Yeah, okay.
30:46.80
kelliwalkercoaching
Almost exactly like I did when I was a kid apart with red hair. You know the red haired versions of me and and in seeing them. You know it. It makes it has been healing for me because it allows me to see myself and to sort of hold space for myself and bring compassion to myself in a way. I. Couldn't have and understanding more than anything understanding because when I see them having needs I'm like oh it's not because they're needy or they're brats or they're being manipulative or because they're unworthy. It has absolutely nothing to do with that they have needs because they are 5 like they are five year olds and it has help.
31:10.74
Dr Russ Kennedy
Right.
31:19.10
Dr Russ Kennedy
Um, yeah, yeah.
31:23.89
kelliwalkercoaching
We find compassion for myself I think in part because it's easy for me to see me and in them and yeah, it's been an interesting journey. Yeah, right.
31:29.43
Dr Russ Kennedy
And people pet. That's that's what I do with people with pets you know often people get pets because humans weren't safe right? So you get people see people that have like 5 dogs or 3 cats or whatever because humans weren't safe when they were younger. So I say okay, you know, bring your. Ah, love for Willow or whatever you know your your favorite pet is like can you take the the love that you have for that Pat and then put it into yourself. Can you do that? Can you look at yourself in the same way. Can you give yourself the same energy the same love the same attention that you give your pet.
31:53.81
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah.
32:03.84
Dr Russ Kennedy
And for for some people that's really Life-ch changinging I have people that say you know that was probably the most impactful thing that you said to me because it was like I have so much love for my animals but I won't have that same love for myself. So when when you told me to sort of take that love because clearly you have it, you clearly it's in you The love.
32:13.98
kelliwalkercoaching
Right.
32:22.13
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, right? yeah and and I think like you said earlier right? So many of us that struggle with alarm are sensitive. We we have this great capacity to love. We have this sensitivity to sort of empathize right to.
32:22.41
Dr Russ Kennedy
Because you're giving it to your animal. So can you just sort of you know, open that door and give it to yourself.
32:35.21
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah, exactly.
32:39.85
kelliwalkercoaching
Empathize with with others. The capacity is there. It's just sort of applying it in a new way. It's like the foundation's there. The fundamentals are there. It's just what does it look like when I bring it or show it to myself and I remember for me when I was really resistant.
32:45.83
Dr Russ Kennedy
Um, yes.
32:57.33
kelliwalkercoaching
1 of the few things that I was able to lean into is like well I'm trying my damned best I am trying hard like it might not be enough but like I was able to lean into wow this is hard and I'm really trying and that was like 1 of my foot you know, kind of into the door of like okay I I can give myself a little something right? it's.
33:02.12
Dr Russ Kennedy
That.
33:09.68
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah, any whatever works. Yeah, whatever works you know and everybody's different. Yeah Nope and it's a practice.
33:17.40
kelliwalkercoaching
And I think you're right? Yeah, it doesn't really matter what we quote unquote right? do to show ourselves some kind of compassion. It's just the essence right? like the overall essence. Yes.
33:27.44
Dr Russ Kennedy
Right? It's a practice like anything else like compassion self-compassion is a skill. It's not something you know I think the the ability is is innate in all of us. But the barriers are so powerful and that's you know, a lot of people when I when I as there I treat them for for anxiety.
33:35.43
kelliwalkercoaching
Absolutely yeah.
33:46.27
Dr Russ Kennedy
Say you know it's not that you don't have you know peace inside you. It's just that you won't allow yourself to feel. It's you have a block to feeling it. So what I do is I help people remove the blocks essentially to loving themselves. That's really what it comes down healing anxiety is basically removing the blocks to loving yourself.
33:57.49
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah.
34:02.10
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, and it's hard right? like I was I was thinking. That's it's habit and and you know I was thinking that the other day like you know, part of my recent journey is like you know I really had this idea of what or who I had to be in in my early 20 s and.
34:05.22
Dr Russ Kennedy
Well, if it's habit.
34:20.25
kelliwalkercoaching
You know this is who I am for you know the good the bad and the ugly. But really, there's there's a lot of good too and sort of embracing. You know the the unedited version is is a process and like you said it's It's a practice. It's a skill and it feels really weird and awkward and.
34:30.85
Dr Russ Kennedy
Um, yeah.
34:38.90
kelliwalkercoaching
Difficult at first and unnatural I think you use that word which was really good and I mean it makes sense. Why wouldn't it feel unnatural if if we're not used to showing ourselves some compassion and kindness. Yeah.
34:40.75
Dr Russ Kennedy
Um, yeah.
34:48.91
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah, because we didn't when we were younger when things go down in our our families. We blame ourselves and then we split from ourselves and then the inner critic gets born. So we start what I call Jabs which is judging abandoning blaming and shaming ourselves.
34:55.25
kelliwalkercoaching
Now.
35:04.59
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah.
35:04.67
Dr Russ Kennedy
And that becomes a way of life and then that that internal split causes so much alarm in our system the way we heal. The alarm is to stop judging abandoning blaming and shaming yourself. That's really how you heal the alarm and when you heal the alarm, the anxiety just goes with it.
35:08.77
kelliwalkercoaching
Pain so much pain. Yeah. Yeah, and I think right it just it I like the word it sort of like fades away it falls away or Unwinds. It necessarily take this sort of concerted I think a lot of us and I was like this too with traditional cbt I'm like I need to make a concerted effort to bake. It.
35:23.94
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah.
35:32.92
Dr Russ Kennedy
Gap. Yeah yeah.
35:35.97
kelliwalkercoaching
Go away right? and when we sort of think about how neuroplasticity works. It's like well no wonder like when all I'm doing is thinking about it and focusing on it and thinking my way out of it some more. It's like dear God of course it's just going to get reinforced like I'm spending all my time and repetition on. Yeah.
35:46.90
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like if tenant of neuroscience is like whatever you focus on you get more of and whether you focus unconsciously or consciously you'll get more of that you'll learn. Basically how to make yourself more anxious.
35:55.17
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah.
36:03.16
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, yep, yep again I mean implicitly unknowingly it was innocent but that's you know that's definitely one of the biggest barriers for me. Um, yeah, so thank you So anything else you want to add about self-compassion that I may have missed.
36:16.42
Dr Russ Kennedy
Well I think it's It's just really the root to healing is is finding that younger version of yourself Self-compassion may be a singular term but it's about kind of loving protecting showing that younger self that they're okay and and that you know adult you will never leave them.
36:20.54
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah.
36:27.40
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, yeah.
36:35.95
Dr Russ Kennedy
And I think child you who struggles with alarm feels that they were abandoned and they're still stuck in that if you look at the way the amygdala works. It has no sense of time so we go right back into that place where we feel alone and abandoned and if you can show that child in you that they're not alone and and they may reject it at first because.
36:50.70
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah.
36:55.91
Dr Russ Kennedy
You know you haven't been adult. You hasn't been around for a long time or adult you has pushed you away pushed the child away for so long that the child doesn't really trust it and like I said the adult doesn't want to go back there because that's where all the pain is but really yeah, yeah, yeah.
37:00.39
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, right.
37:07.47
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, we like to avoid right as humans. It's like move towards pleasure avoid that pain. Yeah.
37:15.35
Dr Russ Kennedy
So connecting with that younger version of you is going to hurt initially. But it's going to relieve the the pain in the child when the pain in the child is relieved then the the adult pain ghost as well because we're all the same now for sure. Yeah.
37:17.73
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah.
37:26.13
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, a lot of releasing. It's like a lot of releasing happens. Yeah, ah, well thank you so much for taking time to to hop on the show and and talk about this again I think so many of us probably the first decade while I was struggling with alarm and anxiety I was.
37:34.17
Dr Russ Kennedy
Of course Kelly.
37:44.42
kelliwalkercoaching
I Really overlooked the idea of what it meant to slow down and and apply self-compassion and warmth and and caring and you know it was it was I dare say like the missing piece for for me. Yeah.
37:55.20
Dr Russ Kennedy
I Think it is for a lot of people and I think traditional therapy kind of leans on this idea that you can change the mind with the mind and you know the program I'm working on now is to show you that you need to use the body as well. You know you need to you need to understand that the body.
38:03.64
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah.
38:07.59
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah. Or not a floating head. Yeah, we do? Yeah no.
38:12.94
Dr Russ Kennedy
Is a representation of the unconscious mind. Yeah yeah, but a lot of us live like that a lot of us live in worry and there's no grounding there. There's no security in your head but your head will tell you that you know this is this is the place where where we're safe and it's like no, it's not. It's not well as a child as a child that was true.
38:25.48
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, this is where you'll find safety just hang here. Yeah right, right? and we outgrow that right it. It's may have served its purpose and yeah.
38:32.17
Dr Russ Kennedy
As a child that that your head was the only place of safety but you're an adult now.
38:38.84
Dr Russ Kennedy
Well some of us outgrow it and some of us stay anxious for the rest of our lives. Yeah, yes, that's a much better way of putting it. Yeah yeah, and.
38:42.84
kelliwalkercoaching
Right? right? I mean um I should say it it Outgrew its usefulness is is how I should say it like ah that's how what I was really kind of say trying to say is it outgrows its usefulness. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
38:54.64
Dr Russ Kennedy
If something works for you as a child you will keep riding that thing until the wheels fall on right? So that's why we worry because worry actually did work. It kept us out of the alarm in our body by keeping us stuck hijacked in our heads but it's not going to work for the rest of your life. In fact, it's going to make your life miserable.
39:01.81
kelliwalkercoaching
That's why I.
39:12.00
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, yeah, it's very consuming. It's very time consuming very costly energetically? Yeah, well thank you again so much Ruby Ah, exactly every.
39:14.88
Dr Russ Kennedy
Yeah, of course Kelly I'll talk to you again in 2027 I guess every four years or like the olympics although they're every two years now but anyway yeah.
39:26.60
kelliwalkercoaching
It's like the olymp. Yep exactly? Yeah, let's we'll be the summer olympics. oh oh well yeah yeah yeah yeah I see what you're saying okay summer winter. Okay, well, we'll just be the summer olympics I love summer.
39:35.24
Dr Russ Kennedy
It's not real winter. Sure sounds good to me.
39:40.80
kelliwalkercoaching
Beautiful. So that's our episode. Thanks so much for tuning in today if you're enjoying the show please subscribe and take a minute to write a review on Itunes that we can reach and support more people if you're looking for one-on-one coaching or have a question you'd like answered on the show. Please visit nototheranxietyshow.com you can also find show notes and a transcript of today's show there. And until next time remember be kind to yourself.
