Episode 272: Illness Anxiety with Phil Lane
Join Kelli and guest Phil Lane, clinical social worker and psychotherapist, as the discuss Illness Anxiety.
To tune into the episode, listen on iTunes or Spotify.
Transcript
00:00.00
kelliwalkercoaching
Hey guys welcome to not another anxiety show I'm your host Kelly Walker and joining me today is guest Phil Lane hi Phil I am good I'm so glad you could be here today.
00:06.23
Phil Lane
Hi Kelly how are you? Oh thank you? It's an honor to be here I'm I'm really excited to talk to you.
00:14.47
kelliwalkercoaching
I like oh you and me both you know, kind of selfishly as somebody. You know that has had illness anxiety I know we'll be talking about that today. Um, but before we do do you mind if I share a little more about you with our listeners. Wonderful. Yeah.
00:26.83
Phil Lane
Sure please do.
00:31.96
kelliwalkercoaching
Phil Lane is a licensed clinical social worker and psychotherapist in private practice. He is also a proud anxiety and panic attack survivor. He specializes in the treatment of anxiety panic impulsivity depression and mood disorders. He is the author of the forthcoming book understanding and coping with illness anxiety. Due to be published. This November Phil has an undergraduate degree in english and has always used writing as a coping mechanism. He also has a master's degree in social work and has experience working in both group and individual therapy sessions settings you can find Phil on Instagram at therapist underscore Phil.
01:08.87
Phil Lane
Yes, okay.
01:09.77
kelliwalkercoaching
So Phil I'm I'm going to dive right in here. Can you tell us a little bit um about what health anxiety looks like and I mean you can give us a definition if you'd like but I feel like it might be um, more helpful to hear like a few examples of how illness anxiety can present. It. Self and what it looks like.
01:29.70
Phil Lane
Sure, Absolutely um in the simplest terms possible. It's a narrow and specific anxiety-based focus on physical health and well-being so generalized anxiety can take sort of a large form. You know it can.
01:41.46
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, yeah.
01:44.10
Phil Lane
Sort of be a free-floating type of feeling I just feel anxious about many situations illness anxiety just narrows it down and brings it down to our sense of physical safety.
01:57.75
kelliwalkercoaching
And I know you mentioned you know in your bio and you kind of shared with me before we started recording that. Um you know you have a history of of illness anxiety and panic attacks and I was wondering if you'd be willing to kind of share what your. Journey looked like and and maybe what your experience looked like and.
02:15.66
Phil Lane
Absolutely um, you know, thinking back. So I'm 43 years old I have to go back about 15 years or so I was in my twenty s and I just would start to experience these physical symptoms that were frightening things like accelerated heartbeat.
02:20.78
kelliwalkercoaching
My god.
02:30.27
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, so.
02:32.11
Phil Lane
I would feel dizzy I feel lightheaded. Um you know headaches all these these things that could be nothing like a headache or could be something like what my mind would tell me while it's an aneurysm or it's a tumor. Um.
02:39.70
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah. Absolutely.
02:47.59
Phil Lane
You know So that's how it started and from there. It went to wanting to figure it out which I think is a really human response to that and that led to seeking a lot of medical opinions and feeling very unsatisfied often with the medical opinions where I would be told you know you're fine or you're too young, you're young, you're fine. There's nothing wrong with you.
03:03.35
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah.
03:06.23
Phil Lane
And I'd be thinking but I don't feel fine I don't feel like I'm okay, um, you know that then sort of escalated into hospital visits, emergency room visits and from there. It just really spiraled until I realized you know this is not a physical problem. This is actually more emotional. And it's more mental and Therapy was really helpful to me. It's the reason I started to do therapy as a patient. Um so was medication. It was the reason that I got on a low dose of an anti-anxiety medication and from there it actually morphed into becoming a therapist and wanting to help people with.
03:42.87
kelliwalkercoaching
And yeah because I feel like you know we were talking about this beforehand and as someone that also has struggled with illness anxiety and looked very similar to to your experience. You know I remember I remember the first time it really hit I was working out in the gym kind of doing an intense workout and suddenly.
03:42.95
Phil Lane
Issues just like this.
04:01.32
Phil Lane
Yeah, you.
04:01.43
kelliwalkercoaching
It was like this impending doom I felt lightheaded right? My heart was beating in my throat and like it was danger Run and um, you know it took me some time to see that like oh there wasn't some being a nurse you know it was like sort of curse of knowledge like oh I know it could be this.
04:07.85
Phil Lane
Um, write.
04:19.24
Phil Lane
Yes.
04:21.30
kelliwalkercoaching
Really rare idiiopathichymia or like you know it was You know so easy to like go down that rabbit hole. But yeah I remember looking for um resources like it I think there's a lot of misconceptions out there like one Healthcare providers I don't think always recognize Health anxiety. Um, and sometimes we can be left feeling like they say Oh no, you're yet like you said almost a little dismissive like you're young, you're fine. Okay bye and that it's like we're kind of like well that was not as comforting as it should be like it's like there's the missing piece that they they don't necessarily know to acknowledge like.
04:46.98
Phil Lane
Right? right.
04:59.40
kelliwalkercoaching
Hey you seem like this is really overwhelming or like there's some anxiety here right? And um, so thank you for your book because there's there just wasn't anything out there. But.
05:08.11
Phil Lane
Yes, thank you so much. Yes, and and let me add to that you know when an anxious person already feels threatened and when on top of feeling threatened. They also feel invalidated it. It really becomes a hopeless feeling from there.
05:13.83
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, yeah.
05:22.64
Phil Lane
Um, and this is not to paint with a broad brush. You know so much of the medical profession does a wonderful job when it comes to bedside manner but to your point I think that there's still room for growth. Um, you know, even asking a simple question like what's going on situationally in your life.
05:31.15
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, so.
05:37.46
Phil Lane
So we're not just looking at it clinically and only focusing on physical symptoms. We're looking also at yes, the human look because right because we all have stuff going on in our lives and that stuff can influence the intensity of the anxiety we experience. So I think just a ah broader view um of an individual's.
05:40.12
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, human the human piece.
05:56.47
Phil Lane
Whole life experience is really important. Maybe the problem is that it can be too narrow when you go into a medical setting. You know, look what brings you in today. Well this hurts. Okay, this hurts. What's the solution and that can maybe be too narrow.
06:07.40
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, yeah, right? Absolutely,. It's like we we kind of forget the human piece and as we learn more about sort of the the sort of interplay but between like chronic pain chronic symptoms anxiety right? like it's like we can't. We can't just always narrow in and hone in like there's a there's a bigger picture to be seen for sure. Yeah, yeah, it's like yeah well you know speaking of that. Um, ah.
06:28.95
Phil Lane
Absolutely, But it's a human thing to want to diagnose and fix.
06:41.80
kelliwalkercoaching
As again as someone who's been here like you I think a lot of us want like why? why illness anxiety like what makes us susceptible to illness anxiety. Especially if maybe we haven't necessarily experienced. A particular health scare or Health threat and and I know when it comes to like perception versus reality like even a perceived health threat can be just as upsetting right? and it can register in a way that like a real a quote unquote you know.
07:00.11
Phil Lane
Yeah.
07:12.72
Phil Lane
Sure.
07:15.54
kelliwalkercoaching
Real real health threat does. But yeah, what makes us susceptible like why I know I best that like why the heck health anxiety.
07:21.00
Phil Lane
You know my my immediate response to that is it's existential. Our sense of safety you know, which which is a good thing. You know that something I tell clients all the time is they say I'm having an existential crisis and I'll say well no, you're thinking existentially and that's not a crisis that's actually very human of you.
07:30.13
kelliwalkercoaching
It's good. Yeah yes.
07:36.40
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, very human.
07:40.20
Phil Lane
But I think there's an existential component. You know our safety. The fact that you know we know that we will cease to exist someday. The idea that that could just be presenting itself right in front of us is really overwhelming. So it's kind of fertile ground for anxiety to attach itself to if you really think about it. Um.
07:47.31
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah.
07:58.59
Phil Lane
You know I mentioned in the book if we felt anxiety in our you know toenails it probably wouldn't bother us but we feel it we feel it in it. Yeah one ah hundred percent we feel it where the organs are you know we feel it where the muscles are so I think part of it is just about our sense of um.
08:03.90
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, filled in our core where all the important things are yeah yeah.
08:16.74
Phil Lane
You know existence if that makes sense and I think the other part is based. There's a trauma element. It's based on what we've been through you know. So maybe we haven't personally experienced being Ill but perhaps a loved one has or we've been so subjected to seeing a loved one go through an illness or a terminal illness.
08:20.51
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah.
08:35.94
Phil Lane
Or we've been around something that was traumatic and had to do with physical health that's fertile ground too I like to look at anxiety as a barnacle it attaches to things and it finds something to attach to so depending on what we've been through in our lives What we've witnessed and experienced it.
08:43.36
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, yeah.
08:53.00
Phil Lane
Can attach to that category of things.
08:54.57
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, and you know speaking of like attaching I know in the book you mentioned like attachment style can play a role in this like if we have a caregiver that we don't really that we feel is maybe dismissive or doesn't listen to our needs or you know when we're not feeling good and we're in it alone that that can impact.
09:02.11
Phil Lane
Um, sure.
09:13.88
kelliwalkercoaching
The development of illness anxiety too.
09:16.25
Phil Lane
Absolutely and that can go to the 2 different responses to illness anxiety care seeking or care avoidance. Um, the person who maybe experienced that kind of parenting may go toward care avoidance and say well nobody is going to help me and that can become very isolative.
09:26.58
kelliwalkercoaching
Great. So.
09:32.45
Phil Lane
That person may kind of resign themselves to the fate that their anxiety has told them is occurring. You know I have this symptom nobody will help me nobody can diagnose it So I Just have to be alone with it. And the other side of that is care seeking seeking constant medical attention. That's the way I went by the way right to care seeking right.
09:50.21
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, me to me too at least originally absolutely like at absolutely originally it was all the care. You know, just throw every test at me. Can we get a free um Mri up in here. What like it was just.
10:03.63
Phil Lane
Absolutely oh my God the amount. Ah the amount of scans I had in blood tests and specialists and you know this doctor and that doctor and you know after a while I guess maybe this is a good thing about anxiety I Think after a while you get tired of it and.
10:07.46
kelliwalkercoaching
Yes.
10:15.32
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:17.82
Phil Lane
You just go I can't I can't live like this anymore. So you start looking for other ways to manage it and that's where the healing begins.
10:21.22
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like you that was similar for me is like eventually after all the care seeking and not kind of getting the result that I Wanted. It's like you know I felt like a roomba that gets stuck in the corner and keeps like. Banging against all like okay this isn't working like I'm not feeling any safer in my body like that experiential learning like all right I guess we have to pivot.
10:44.41
Phil Lane
Absolutely I think that's a great analogy that you make it really is like that. It's like just banging your head against the wall after a while. Um, so yeah, and Pivot is a great word for it. You know pivot towards what's the what's really at the core here.
10:46.64
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, yeah.
10:57.40
Phil Lane
If I know physically I'm safe all these tests and scans are coming back. Clean and and I'm getting all this reassurance. There has to come a point where I have to pivot. Um, so I always applaud people who yeah come to me in therapy. Um, and they're in that they're at that pivot point.
11:12.45
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah.
11:12.83
Phil Lane
Where they're saying look these other sort of maladaptive responses just aren't working for me anymore and then we talk about what can we do therapeutically to help you to feel safe again.
11:22.50
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, and do you mind like what are some of the therapeutic modalities that you have found are helpful for you or your clients like what has helped people find that um.
11:33.10
kelliwalkercoaching
That sense of like okay it's safe to be in my own skin because I feel like that's the hardest thing with illness anxiety is like you can't escape your body. There's no avoiding being in your body you know, maybe temporarily with like substance use but like ultimately we always come back to our body and it's a hard.
11:44.15
Phil Lane
Um, yeah, um.
11:51.60
kelliwalkercoaching
Thing to like get a breather from So How how do we? you know? and and I know this is like a complex question but like what certain you know? are there certain modalities or whatever that you have found were particularly helpful for you and clients to start to cultivate like. Ah, felt sense of safety in the body and like okay sensations are actually okay and and part of being a human being.
12:13.68
Phil Lane
Absolutely well. That's one of the answers right? there you know that and I guess we could call that I don't know Humanistic Psychotherapy Whatever we call that but the idea of normalizing you know that anxiety is a normal experience I had ah a therapist of mine actually tell me early on in therapy.
12:20.38
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah.
12:28.65
Phil Lane
Was really frustrated in a session and and I said God I Just want to not have anxiety anymore and he said well that's not the point you're always going to have anxiety. The point is to be able to manage the anxiety and that really stuck with me all these years later. So first of all normalizing and humanizing the experience is really important.
12:33.96
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, yeah.
12:44.49
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, yeah.
12:46.56
Phil Lane
As far as modalities other modalities go cbt cognitive behavioral therapy is probably the first line intervention therapeutically because it teaches a client to start challenging the anxious thoughts to start asking what evidence do I have for this anxious thought. So. You know if I've been to 10 different doctors for the same thing that's been bothering me. They're all saying I'm okay I have to start looking at the evidence that tells me I may be okay, the hard part of that is accepting it because the anxious voice is very loud. You know, um, it's very clever. Anxiety is really sneaky. It's very manipulative.
13:10.63
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, is oh yeah, and it's very clever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:20.78
Phil Lane
You know I like to tell people anxiety is a liar. It's just a liar it lies it just makes stuff up. Um, the other thing I use a lot is just the idea of psychoeducation just as you and I are talking really understanding it from a psychological perspective gives people a sense of autonomy.
13:32.94
kelliwalkercoaching
Right.
13:36.89
Phil Lane
Ah, sense of ownership. It's like the more you know, kind of thing.
13:38.30
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, the more you write absolutely like just understanding at least for me I know one of the first things that was particularly helpful early on was someone that just could understand and like demystify my experience like it just calmed down the bewilderment a little bit which was really adding.
13:52.37
Phil Lane
Yes. Oh my God Absolutely and when you are really in the throes of of anxiety or or panic you you truly feel that you're all alone on a planet you know, just there by yourself. So and that's that's I Guess some of the magic that happens in the therapy room. Is you you start to feel that you're not alone and.
13:58.30
kelliwalkercoaching
To the anxiety cycle and.
14:05.72
kelliwalkercoaching
Yes, you're connecting it is.
14:15.93
Phil Lane
That really promotes healing.
14:16.23
kelliwalkercoaching
I Yeah oh yeah, wonderful I could not agree more and you know I I don't know about you but I know I certainly had this and I've I've talked to a lot of other people that struggle with illness anxiety we or they you know they hold this belief about ourselves that. Were neurotic or hypochondriac or needy like you know this this it outdated diagnosis of Hypochondria can can you clear up this like this misconception by sharing um a bit about what you've seen are those of us that struggle with illness anxiety.
14:39.71
Phil Lane
Yes.
14:52.67
kelliwalkercoaching
Neurotic, Nervous Nelly's or is there something more going on here. Is there a better way to understand this.
14:54.64
Phil Lane
What a what? A yeah what a wonderful question and I'm so glad you asked that? um you know, no, we are not neurotic, neurotic and neuroses look I'm a big fan of old psychological stuff I like reading the the old people you know Karen Hornai and roo may but.
15:07.12
kelliwalkercoaching
And.
15:13.13
Phil Lane
Excuse me they were they were sort of pejorative in there in the way they would discuss anxious people. You know they were all neurotic. They were histrionic some of the language that was in the dsm up until very recently was the same kind of language.
15:15.45
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, yeah.
15:23.60
kelliwalkercoaching
And very recently. Yeah.
15:27.43
Phil Lane
It was only 2013 that the dsm 5 changed um hypochondria to illness anxiety. So the change in language is really important. Um, that really is ah that way of looking at it as Hypochondria or histrionic or dramatic is a very outmoded way of looking at things. Um.
15:35.70
kelliwalkercoaching
It is.
15:47.80
Phil Lane
Oh my gosh. It's tied up in so many societal constructs you know whether it's you know masculinity or whatever and I mean I can go on and on about that. But thank goodness we understand it now as as more you know, really a um, a situation where the person is frightened. They're not neurotic.
15:51.13
kelliwalkercoaching
Ah.
16:04.57
Phil Lane
They're not manipulative. They're not trying to elicit sympathy. They're frightened something's happening. They don't know what it is and they're looking for an answer.
16:12.27
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, ah see that is so less loaded than like what we think of when we think of Hypochondria and I remember struggling with this and part of the reason it was so bewildering is like I didn't really identify with. With being like what I thought of as an anxious person like I wasn't a worrier really you know like at least not cognitively like I wasn't cognitively worried about all the what ifs so the world generally felt like a safe place to me my parents would be like my god you didn't lock your cars in the city I'm like that's fine. Nothing's gonna happen to me right? like oh god yeah.
16:29.42
Phil Lane
Um, my yeah.
16:43.51
Phil Lane
Um, right right? right? right.
16:44.84
kelliwalkercoaching
But you know you know like and so I I think it was helpful for me to understand like it doesn't mean that you are a certain way I don't know how to explain it but it was helpful for me to understand that like it. It doesn't necessarily like discriminate. It's not a type of person that is going to struggle with anxiety.
17:02.51
Phil Lane
I I Completely agree that that barnacle of anxiety it may attach to you and I regarding our physical health but it attaches to everybody else in their own unique way. You know there are people whose anxiety just fixate on fixates on something different.
17:03.87
kelliwalkercoaching
Right? Like like.
17:12.81
kelliwalkercoaching
You right. Exactly? yeah.
17:19.15
Phil Lane
Um, so I think that's ah and that's the normalizing of just the concept of anxiety the world we live in is super unpredictable. So to think that we'll never feel anxiety is ah very unreasonable.
17:28.50
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah I mean just like we feel anger or excitement or jealousy or you know like I mean.
17:33.15
Phil Lane
Absolutely so looking at it I Love that looking at it as an emotion you know, rather than as this disorder that's part of the problem too though is you know that we love to diagnose things so you know.
17:43.63
kelliwalkercoaching
I Know yeah an inch. It's it's I remember when I went in for um, ah like ah a pregnancy visit right? like in for like my prenatal visits and it was like problem pregnant. Yeah I'm like oh my. I Have to call this a problem like yeah yeah, yeah.
18:00.92
Phil Lane
Well, we do the same thing as therapists you know, all our all our intake paperwork says presenting problem and you know right? there you have to just my personal belief. You know I believe you have to help the client feel that look This is not necessarily a problem. This is something that we want to talk about how to Navigate. Um, once you label it a problem Now. It's a problem.
18:23.86
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, and it can feel like problem first human second it can be dehumanizing in that way like hey I'm not a problem like I am a dynamic complex human yeah, um.
18:26.99
Phil Lane
Yes, yes. Absolutely right.
18:39.40
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, so is there anything else that like you would want to share or want people to know about illness anxiety or.
18:45.59
Phil Lane
Sure, let me share something just let me share some ah cautionary note if I may just just about self-diagnosis about internet research. Um yeah I Um, you know do it with great caution. Um.
18:48.64
kelliwalkercoaching
Absolutely.
18:55.53
kelliwalkercoaching
So but are you saying don'n go on Webmd. Ah.
19:02.89
Phil Lane
When you look for diagnosis or diagnostic information online or you're trying to pinpoint what's happening with you Physically, you're not doing it because you're crazy or you're neurotic or anything like that again, you're doing it because you're seeking an answer to absolutely to feel some safety. The only problem is what we forget is that that information is very very general.
19:11.88
kelliwalkercoaching
Right? to feel safe. Yeah so.
19:22.89
Phil Lane
It does not take into consideration because it can't I mean I know Ai is here and and whatever but that information found on Webmd and and Google cannot take into consideration your unique circumstances your life circumstances. The things that may be impacting your anxiety. So. It's a cautionary note I'm just a big advocate for being really careful about seeking answers on the internet and I'll extend that to social media now I have to be careful because I have an Instagram account so but at at the same time It's not meant to provide diagnostic information. It's not meant to replace.
19:48.60
kelliwalkercoaching
I Yeah raise it I.
19:58.75
Phil Lane
Mental Health treatment anything like that and nor are any of these pieces of information you find about medical diagnosis. They should not be seen as replacements. Um for actual medical treatment. So Just a cautionary note. It's a blessing and a curse of course because all this information is there. It's accessible to us. But. We have to be careful with how we use it and it truly can escalate our anxiety rather than soothe it.
20:24.40
kelliwalkercoaching
Well I mean the kind of metaphor I like to use is like if I'm feeling anxious right? if I have a news like or me and my kids my whole family had strep throat and oh God we were oh we felt like Garbage. We all had like fevers. It was like oh God you did not want to be in our house and um. For me I know that like if I'm struggling with an illness or like you know a new Pang or a new whatever that's stuck around like if I go to webmd in that state like feeling sort of worried or concerned about my health or even anxious about it like. I'm absorbing this information through a lens that is almost always going to escalate it almost always at least in my experience kind of yeah.
21:00.21
Phil Lane
Yes, that is such oh my gosh. That's such a good point. You know you're going. It's like you have to be in a particular mindset if that information is really going to be useful to you if you are already in a heightened state.
21:14.42
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah.
21:16.64
Phil Lane
Then that information is going to almost in a way amplify itself and it's it's gonna you're going to receive the information in a heightened state and then the anxiety will misinterpret it or you know it cause you to pay attention to only certain parts of it. That's a great thing. Anxiety does look look at this but don't look at this part you know.
21:18.72
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah.
21:29.57
kelliwalkercoaching
I Know Yeah, but just yeah hone in on this one little thing right? like it's like yeah hone in on this one little symptom.
21:35.26
Phil Lane
Right? right? Well yeah, sure I mean yeah I wonder how many times and I'm so I've certainly done this. Maybe you have too. But I've looked something up. You know this kind of pain on Google and it may list. You know, 15 different possibilities and where does my anxious mind.
21:43.97
kelliwalkercoaching
Oh God yeah.
21:51.95
Phil Lane
Jump to the most catastrophic one. It ignores all the absolutely. So yes, you're absolutely right.
21:53.77
kelliwalkercoaching
That the most catastrophic. Yes, It's no, Ah, definitely and so it's um, for me I'll often like for myself I'm like listen if I have a grievance. With my boss I'm probably not going to call them like after I've had you know a glass of wine or 2 and I'm like if I'm anxious. It's it's the put it on a shelf The waiting game for me and I just do my best to kind of find safety in other ways that aren't going to necessarily escalate me in in the moment.
22:08.70
Phil Lane
I.
22:21.50
Phil Lane
I love that I'll I'll have to steal that and use that in my therapy practice. That's awesome. That's like putting a bunch of crap in your Amazon cart letting it sit and then deciding later I don't need all this.
22:25.77
kelliwalkercoaching
But not.
22:30.28
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, yeah, it's there. It's there if I feel like I need it but you know I have like a feeling I'm not going to need this sort of coping mechanism. You know in a half hour an hour or later in the day when I'm feeling a little more grounded I don't think it'll look quite as important in it usually.
22:41.65
Phil Lane
Um, yes.
22:47.49
kelliwalkercoaching
It usually does it like it's there.
22:47.51
Phil Lane
Absolutely And by the way. Yes, and I have a lot of those types of exercises in the book by the way about, um, you know self-soothing and meditating using Narrative Therapy cbt exercises ways that we can find soothing without having to jump to that anxious action.
22:53.66
kelliwalkercoaching
Ah, fabulous.
23:02.19
kelliwalkercoaching
I right? ex exactly and ones that like tend to really at least me like escalate me even more my gosh like web md I don't know if I've actually ever been soothed I'm trying to think if there was like 1 time even that it ever made me feel better and i.
23:07.39
Phil Lane
Yes.
23:19.76
kelliwalkercoaching
Don't think so ah, you know.
23:19.88
Phil Lane
I Agree with you now. Do you now being in the medical profession. Do you find that is it common for doctors nurses you know, just people who work in that field to experience anxiety I think we tend to look at medical profession as well. They're clinical. You know they don't.
23:37.99
kelliwalkercoaching
No, but they ah it's it's a common that like um, it's a common thing especially in medical school like that like we had a guest on Dr Jud brewer Dr like a lot of when people are learning diagnostics and all these different.
23:38.22
Phil Lane
This doesn't affect them.
23:43.31
Phil Lane
Oh.
23:51.10
kelliwalkercoaching
Issues and diseases like where a lot of medical students will go through a period where like they you know quote unquote are more aware and might have a little more illness anxiety like what was that Pang like it's it's hard not to when we're learning like.
23:59.23
Phil Lane
Wow Wow. Sure.
24:05.51
kelliwalkercoaching
At least like same in nursing school when you learn all these things that you even have no idea existed and it's like oh boy that was a pang in that area that makes me think of so like the association game that our brain does and now there's just a lot more to associate to our like physical experience and.
24:20.43
Phil Lane
That's fascinating. So that means that if a patient were to go into a doctor's appointment and share that they feel anxious. Most medical practitioners could really understand that.
24:29.70
kelliwalkercoaching
And I well I think so right? especially if it registered with them I know some will just like have panic attacks and then it goes away during middle school and they're like oh that was weird. Um, but yeah I I think in theory at least me like the more I've shared with like my providers.
24:40.76
Phil Lane
Um.
24:45.53
kelliwalkercoaching
The more understanding I've got and and it makes it a little more like even now I do not love going to the doctors I go I go I go once a year you know like I get my blood I get all this stuff done. It's lucky for me like I genuinely don't usually have to go in for other issues I've been lucky in that sense but like.
24:45.96
Phil Lane
M.
24:53.71
Phil Lane
Yep yep.
25:02.10
Phil Lane
Um.
25:03.65
kelliwalkercoaching
It's still hard for me sometimes especially like when we all had strep throat and I'm like oh god I gotta go to the urgent care and deal with this like you know it's an opportunity to say hey like I'm feeling a little anxious and I don't think everybody always understands but like 8 times out of 10 I get some kind of.
25:07.83
Phil Lane
Yeah.
25:22.57
kelliwalkercoaching
Comforting response that makes it a little bit easier to be in that very sterile very sterile white sort of like not comfortable room.
25:24.96
Phil Lane
Yes, absolutely. And and I really advocate for. You know people to express when they're feeling anxious or when they're worried and not to feel shame around that. Ah, we're talking about normalizing and Humanizing. It's a really normal thing when you're experiencing something regarding your health to feel uncomfortable to feel uneasy so you know again I Really think that.
25:36.74
kelliwalkercoaching
Now I.
25:52.95
Phil Lane
People should allow themselves to let their practitioners know you know I'm here but I'm I'm worried about this.
25:55.23
kelliwalkercoaching
I to share that I right? and I know for me like there's been times with providers or like the old and like there was a couple of therapists I had that really didn't understand it and it was um. Like I wasn't feeling very hurt or or seen you know and I could tell they were getting frustrated with me and or a doctor that just didn't um you know was like we'll just relax and I'm like yeah I'm gonna need a new doctor like um, thank you? I'm gonna be changing my provider like I I always encourage people like you you you can This is.
26:18.29
Phil Lane
Yeah, great. Thanks! Thanks! a lot. Yeah.
26:29.26
kelliwalkercoaching
You're meant to feel supported. You can find someone that does understand and you feel heard and seen by yeah, ultimately.
26:32.40
Phil Lane
Absolutely and you are you are in charge of your care. You know I think it's I think it's okay to look I tell my clients look at it like you you hired me so I work for you So make sure I'm working for you in a way that's helpful to you.
26:39.99
kelliwalkercoaching
I yeah I work asex. Yeah exactly so it's always okay to look for someone that does express some kind of like human understanding. Um I just had 1 last question about okay, what happens when our fears do come true.
26:48.10
Phil Lane
Um, yes, absolutely sure. Yeah.
26:58.13
kelliwalkercoaching
What happens when we do get sick or if we are faced I know you kind of touched on this in one of the chapters that you sent me but like what what happens when Ourune worst fears do come true like we get that cancer diagnosis or we get that chronic disease diagnosis or we get ah very acutely. Ill.
27:09.70
Phil Lane
Yeah, um.
27:16.69
Phil Lane
Right? Sure Well you know, Ironically, we're actually in in a great position in that case because we've done the work we understand from a psychological standpoint. We understand from a human standpoint.
27:17.23
kelliwalkercoaching
Right? Are there options for us. Is there hope for us. So.
27:26.88
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah.
27:33.12
Phil Lane
And we've learned coping mechanisms. You know we've learned how to manage it. It doesn't mean that. Yeah, we we hear this information and go and no big deal. But we're in a good position to be able to manage it and it goes back to the quote I shared that a therapist told me that the idea was never that we were going to eradicate anxiety completely.
27:43.81
kelliwalkercoaching
I yeah.
27:49.96
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah, yeah.
27:52.74
Phil Lane
It was that when things happen we will be able in a healthy and adaptive way to cope with them.
27:56.58
kelliwalkercoaching
Yeah I Really love that you shared that and humanize I don't think anybody's gonna you know I think anybody getting like a scary medical diagnosis is going to feel their stomach drop out of their butt. You know what? I mean like whos it's.
28:09.90
Phil Lane
Ah, for sure. Absolutely yes.
28:13.44
kelliwalkercoaching
And and and I think sometimes we see it as a personal failing and we take almost like a hyper accountability for our emotions like we shouldn't feel anxious or nervous and and I'm I'm glad you shared like that will happen. We will. We will hear hard news. We will feel sad or scared or yeah.
28:23.27
Phil Lane
Ah, yeah, absolutely and and look we. We will not have a life a lifetime without any scare or without any illness or anything like that. So I think accepting it is is definitely a part of things and it's okay to accept things that are uncomfortable.
28:32.64
kelliwalkercoaching
Right.
28:42.47
Phil Lane
And it is uncomfortable. You know my wife will tell you she doesn't want to be ah nobody should be around me when I'm sick because I'm just a big baby. Um, but she she says that with all love but she's right because I really hate being uncomfortable I Really just hate it.
28:48.98
kelliwalkercoaching
But me too I'm better at it. But I don't love it I Still don't love I'm not a great patient. You know you, you know it just.
28:59.65
Phil Lane
Um, no, absolutely. Absolutely.
29:02.63
kelliwalkercoaching
Um, not a great patient. Yeah, my husband will also tell you like he does his mandatory like you okay can get you some soup and like he'll stay like parallel to me but he kind of like gives me a wide berth. He's like I'm making sure you're okay, but you know I'll be in the other room. Yeah yeah.
29:12.25
Phil Lane
Yeah, absolutely yeah, yes, absolutely and that's actually good because we remind ourselves. We actually do know how to soothe ourselves.
29:22.55
kelliwalkercoaching
Yes, yep I get right? like I consume I can do this and yeah I know I don't I don't love it. But it's um I don't know who does love being sick I suppose but um, yeah, so yeah, well thank you so much Phil I really appreciate you kind of coming on and sharing your experience your expertise giving.
29:29.96
Phil Lane
Right? right.
29:41.13
kelliwalkercoaching
Those of us that struggle with illness anxiety a resource that we can read and feel again I think half of healing is feeling understood feeling humanized feeling like hey we're not alone in this and this does not mean we're like neurotic Nelly's we're just scared and we're looking to feel safe.
29:47.89
Phil Lane
Yeah, yeah.
29:58.93
Phil Lane
Absolutely thank you so much. Kelly I really appreciate the opportunity to be able to share this information and to anybody out there who's struggling with illness anxiety. You know there's hope there's healing. Ah you absolutely are not neurotic. You're not broken. Um, you know, but reach out and and get the support that you need and that will help you.
30:16.40
kelliwalkercoaching
That ah, beautiful. Well thank you so much? Phil um, that is our episode. Thanks so much for tuning in today if you're enjoying the show please subscribe and take a minute to write a review on Itunes so it can reach and support more people if you're looking for one-on-one coaching or have a question you'd like answered on the show. Please visit nototheranxietyshow.com and until next time remember be kind to yourself.
